While assiduously writing my novel, actually rewriting it, I’ve come across many dilemmas worth sharing to anyone going through what I’m going through—whether novice or advanced—mostly dealing with writing perspectives. You know . . . first person, third person, multi-person omniscient or whatever. I read an article while back by David Niall Wilson—a horror writer with much experience and a growing body of work—about first person point of view, a very simple straightforward post that had a lasting impact on me. The post actually pissed me off at first, but after a few weeks, I realized he was correct in his assertion. I wish him great success and learned a few things from him (listening to others is very beneficial). He is also the site admin and contributor to Storytellersunplugged, one of the sleeper blogs often frequented by serious writers and is relatively unknown, but isn’t that how it is when a blog really has something to say? I highly recommend it as it has 30 contributors and offers a wealth of information on writing, from publishing to craft, a definite unsung gem in the blogosphere. I’d personally be honored to write a post for them if I get the chance.
While writing my novel, which was originally in first person—and I have a very distinctive and gripping voice in first person (or at least I believe I do hahaha)—I ran into dozens of plot problems. In first person, you cannot show or describe the thoughts or intentions of another character, which is a double edged sword. Most of my short fiction on this blog is in first person, and some of the tales are effective and riveting (some suck but I’m at peace with my shortcomings), but in the scope of a full length novel, it isn’t easy. Actually, it’s incredibly difficult. I agree with David completely. Most books written in first person suck, and many authors have voiced their opinions on 1st person POV—it’s always the same advice: when you’re starting out, write in third person, especially if you ever plan to get a book deal. He said that many editors in the real world won’t even look at a manuscript in first person, but it’s not just his opinion. Chuck Palahniuk, author of Fight Club and the much anticipated Pygmy (a book I can’t wait to read) said the same thing—among a sea of others.
One of my favorite books written in first person was American Psycho, by Bret Easton Ellis, a book Stephen King hated, though he just doesn’t get Ellis’ work in my opinion (maybe you have to really appreciate the cocaine snorting counterculture and have been part of it in all it’s distasteful glory to actually like it). It’s a book with no plot, and purposefully has no plot. It is a twisted musing on 1980s yuppie culture, brand names, consumerism, sickening murder and pornographic tales of sexual insanity—hard core Dostoevskian themes and pungent sociocultural satire. I loved it, but I actually am a psycho. If you don’t have a powerful grip on first person AND a supremely fantastic idea, you will be better off writing in third person. Short stories are different, and first person is easier to employ, but in a vastly large story, it is unyieldingly arduous.
Clive Barker’s Galilee is in first person, an immensely powerful tale with a rich tapestry of elements rivaled by few. It’s not a horror novel, and not his most popular, but one of the best I’ve seen in first person in a long time. The amount of historical research he did in writing it is simply astonishing. Barker is almost inhuman in his skill, and it all came from perseverance and a dedicated love for writing.
I’m not saying to write your first novel, or any novel, in third person because it’s easier (even though it is), it’s because third person is a better bet for being read and liked by an agent or publisher (and it’s easier to tell a story in third person). I felt constricted somewhat writing a huge work in first person as it severely limits your possibilities. In third person you can create scenes where the characters are apart, alone, or anything you like. You can show the thoughts, intentions, perspectives, motives and desires of many characters in extreme detail. And it is much easier to tell a story in third person than in first person (didn’t I already say that?).
Some Problems With First Person Perspective
- You cannot show the thoughts of other characters
- You’re limited to the confines of your main character and everything the reader perceives is through that person’s eyes
- You must have compelling, interesting, enthralling and readable conversation between characters. Actually, in first person, the character’s conversations are possibly the most important aspect. Few writers write great conversation, and first person complicates the matter exponentially.
- The voice of your narration must be consistent, and can only be altered within the purview of their mental status.
- Some types of stories lend themselves to be more effective in first person, and you must know if your idea falls in that category beforehand. Detective stories lend themselves to first person as an obvious example.
- Be careful starting every sentence with “I” or using “I” too much in your prose ( it’s loathed by most publishers). A previously published author already successful has the imprimatur to do so and get away with it.
Rewriting my novel in third person has opened up the story and allowed me to add in crucial elements to make the story a real story—something I didn’t realize I wanted at first as I planned on having little or no plot in favor of postmodern culture and conversation driving the entire thing. Sure, I can write potent descriptions: particularly gore, murder, and sex; and I have a penchant for slowing down time during fast paced action sequences (a technique I transferred from playing guitar solos through rhythms of fast and slow tempos—and applying it in writing) . I am confident in my ability to limn powerful scenes . . . but so what? Great scenes are not stories!
Any competent and intelligent writer with a grasp on language can write shimmering and powerfully descriptive prose, but a story is an entirely different animal. Without a story, your writing is nothing. The story, and your ability to convey it with passion and emotional intensity, far outweighs your ability to write descriptive prose (in importance).



#1 by Zoe at April 11th, 2009
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First, I love storytellersunplugged! I’ve read some incisive, intelligent posts there.
The 1st/3rd person is a big issue (I guess we won’t talk about 2nd person, a la “Choose Your Own Adventure” series). This post has me wondering about the difference b/w writing novels and short stories, because I am writing short stories now. The project I’m working on at the moment is a small group of all 1st-person stories. It can be really difficult at times, but sometimes I feel that it really works. But when I think about writing a novel in 1st person, I imagine that, like you, I would feel constricted.
This is a really interesting insight into your process.
#2 by Revellian at April 11th, 2009
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Thanks Zoe,
I mix in 2nd person quite a lot in some narration, but it seems to be more benign. Ultimately it really doesn’t matter, it’s a matter of personal preference. It’s just that being published and really taking off is so difficult. I know several writers signed by major publishers who have sold lots of books and they end up driving around the country on a book signing tour (in their own car with their own gas) and like 1-2 people show up hahaha! Two years later they’re dropped and forgotten about. I write only because I love to, and if I do make a living from it, great—but if I can’t, I’ll still write anyway and not give up.
I love writing in first person and actually prefer it, but my story seems to be operating more effectively in third (jeez I’m just a beginner, but I am learning)
#3 by Michelle Gartner at April 11th, 2009
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I’ll have to read after the Eater Holiday- I have struggled with both and I am sure you have some wonderful insight on it. Have a great Easter.
#4 by Revellian at April 11th, 2009
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Thanks Michelle, happy Easter to you and your family! The struggle of writing is the reason I write, without the struggle, I would be bored
#5 by Svasti at April 11th, 2009
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Nice post Bobby, its great that you share this stuff in the process of writing. I’m still very much in the sandpit when it comes to understanding how I will eventually write my book.
I’ve only just started writing a couple of blog posts in third person, and really, its just because that’s the way it came out! But its an interesting learning experience all the same.
#6 by Revellian at April 12th, 2009
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Thanks Svasti, even though I wrote this post, I really don’t necessarily practice or believe any of it. This was just an exercise in thought. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter which POV you write in, just learn to write in all of them. Hey, as long as it’s written correctly in standard manuscript form, it will stand a chance of publication
#7 by Lidian at April 13th, 2009
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I will have to check out storytellers…thanks for pointing it out. I tend to write in the first person but now that I am starting draft #3 of a historical mystery novel (set in Brooklyn in the late 1890s) I am considering mulitple viewpoints (as in The Woman in White) and structuring it like a court transcript (which is what Collins does in WIW). Having said that, first person is, as you say, problematic in that one can only see what the narrator sees.
In many detective novels, first person is not a bad option though…Anyway, I very much enjoyed your post on this; it is good to read what another writer has to say about this.
#8 by Revellian at April 13th, 2009
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Hi Lidian! Historical based novels are I’m sure quite a challenge, but you seem to know that stuff really well. I like writing from any viewpoint but I’m sticking the 3rd person at least from my first few novels for publication purposes. Yeah detective stories or even memoirs are effective in first person. Ultimately it really doesn’t matter as long as it’s good and a serious publisher really likes it (hopefully). The court transcript style is a cool idea and is definitely a different beast altogether. Thanks!
#9 by Melinda at April 14th, 2009
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What an interesting topic and subsequent discussion here.
When I write fiction I like to write in the third person and have found that it does allow you to really express the emotions of all the characters much more vividly (and I actually do have a mystery novel that I started several years ago that I will likely pick up after I finish my memoir).
Of course, for my memoir, I write in the first person — but (lol) I always think it is weird when people talk about *themselves* in the third person when in conversation. Like, “Melinda loves to write her memoir in the first person because if Melinda wrote it in the third person, she would sound like an a-hole.” It reminds me of when my mother used to say to me, “Has Melinda been a bad girl” (and even at 3, I would think, “why didn’t you just say ‘you.’ !!
LOL!
Melinda
#10 by Revellian at April 14th, 2009
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Hi Melinda! I’m so into working on my novel I barely come up for air. Going through this process has taught me so much. I foresee my second one taking 6 months or so instead of four years. I actually somewhat know how to develop a plot now, and it wasn’t easy (and I’m still just an inexperienced beginner). Yeah a memoir has to be in first person doesn’t it? I’d like to write a fictional memoir, that would be fun.
I just finished reading “Persuasion” by Jane Austen and absolutely loved that book. I can see myself writing a family based drama about love and loss, a far cry from the horror but it’s something that interests me. Yeah, Bobby already talks to himself out loud when he’s alone and sometimes draws weird looks from strangers when he does it in public by accident. He will be a babbling old man one day
#11 by Bobo at April 15th, 2009
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Bobby… how I wish you wrote this two weeks ago when I was trying to do my assignment! I was suppose to write a paper on “Wide Sargasso Sea” which was written in first person… in a stream of consciousness style. It was SO TOUGH as I couldn’t understand my coursebooks!! Your explanation is so simple and so easy to understand… just 2 weeks late.
#12 by Revellian at April 15th, 2009
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Hey Petrina! Yeah, that book is difficult for anyone to really grasp fully unless you are really into the history of Jean Rhys’ country and have read “Jane Eyre” by Charlotte Bronte. It’s so funny that I read a book about parallelism in writing that discussed this very subject just a few weeks ago. I once failed a college term paper about “Gulliver’s Travels” because I didn’t see the parallels between it, 1700s European politics and the Whigs. Everyone else in class pointed out the parallel, but I believe they cheated and used the Cliff’s Notes or the Internet to write their paper. I freaking hate books that assume you are supposed to be an expert on other writers or obscurely boring history. I say give me the story, and only the story—not some pompous assumption hahaha
#13 by Solomon at April 16th, 2009
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Hi Bob,
It’s really a miracle that I chanced upon clicking your picture in the facebook and got to know you. I’m so happy that I found your blog which is a goldmine for writers. I’ve no english literature background, but deeply interested in writing. I want to write novels and short stories based on my experiences. I also want to take up writing autobiographies for whomever.
I’s in a big dilemma in which person to write. But I found third person gives us lot of scope to describe in detail. It won’t sound pompous too. This article and follow up articles (which I’m going to read) gave me lot of insights and I’m so happy to find your blog. Pls. guide me to what to read to get a foothold in writing novels (that I think you’ll any way discuss in this blog!)
Thanks for the blog and great knowledge shared!
Solomon
#14 by Revellian at April 16th, 2009
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Thanks Soloman! My only advice in writing is to write and write often, and also read a lot. I’m certainly no expert, then again I don’t believe anyone else is either. And it really doesn’t matter which perspective you write from, and it’s a good idea to write in from every possible perspective and vary the use of past and present tense
#15 by Jennifer at April 16th, 2009
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Interesting — and interesting what I’ve learned in these comments about peoples’ projects.
There is an immediacy to the first person that can be attractive, but it certainly does make it difficult to write the longer stuff (for all the reasons you’ve mentioned. And now Jennifer is imagining talking about herself in the third person all the time, but Jennifer doesn’t want to annoy anyone, so she’ll stop that now.
I’ve been thinking a lot about plot and storytelling as I’ve been taking writing more seriously. Previously, I just read for pleasure, but now I’m reading in part to take things apart and to see how stories are structured. It’s those long-range stories that scare me. I can’t even imagine being able to sustain something for an entire novel. Short stories are appealing for both their tight structure and the freedom one can have within them. I admire your courage in taking on the novel and look forward to reading the result (even with my wimpy sensibilities).
#16 by Revellian at April 16th, 2009
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Hi Jennifer, it’s great to see you here! As far as a plot goes, I cannot “frame” a plot out before writing like some people do, and I’ve tried several times. What works for me is I come up with a basic premise or seed. I create 3-4 main characters and their names or functions in the story change a few times (sometimes) as I go along. Then I just start writing off the top of my head. As I go along; plot twists, themes, and motifs become apparent. Then I often go back and add stuff to earlier chapters (like a core that’s built from the inside out). I keep a book of notes for my novel that actually only came about after I got into it. I didn’t write out notes before I wrote the story, only during and after around the first 10,000 words.
During my first attempt, I kept trying to sketch out a plot and write the story, but as I said, it killed it. So—and this is probably the most important thing I’ve ever realized about writing a novel—is you don’t need some elaborate preconceived plot. All you need is a really basic idea, like “rising up from the ashes of rejection and finding real love”; or “a character realizes the world doesn’t live by their inept rules of life”; or even simpler like “envy, pain, revelation”. To me, it’s all that’s required. The rest is the story grown around and from the seed.
As long as somewhere in the story, the characters change in some profound and interesting way, it will probably be a good novel regardless of genre. My novel is a love story about loneliness, bad choices, drug addiction and revenge—a story about humanity and the realities of toxic relationships; more character/conversation driven than plot driven. You could write a great novel, I know you could. You could go for a novella or novelette, but like me, it’ll end up being longer
#17 by gypsy at April 17th, 2009
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Being absent from my “dailies”, I knew I missed a lot. This is my first stop….and I love this entry Bobby. I’ve been thinking about this “issue” or “idea” or whatever other people call it. Reading it has helped a lot!!!
Thanks for sharing Storytellersunplugged as well
.
Have a wonderful weekend!
#18 by Revellian at April 17th, 2009
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Thanks, it’s great to see you Gypsy! I’m not blogging very frequently these days as I’m working a lot of hours . . . fun fun. You have a great weekend too
#19 by LisaNYC at April 20th, 2009
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Hi there! Just discovered your great blog from BC! I’m also a fiction writer who gravitates towards darker material, and don’t totally agree with your take on the problems with 1st person narratives. Of course, it’s totally subjective! But novels written in the 1st person are the ones I’m more drawn to, since you really get inside the character’s head, and I find the text much more layered and complex. But, of course, it all depends on the writer. It’s just what I prefer since I’ve been writing in the 1st person since I was first published. Have you read any of the novels of Peter Handke, like the wonderful “A Moment of True Feeling?” Or the fantastic novels of the Austrian novelist, Thomas Bernhard? I’m sure you’ve read Sam Beckett’s work.
Look forward to reading more of your writing!
#20 by Revellian at April 20th, 2009
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Hi Lisa! Well, I don’t agree with my own opinion in this article either, but as with all articles written on any blog by anyone—it ultimately does not matter anyway. Post modernism really translates to “nothing matters and life has no meaning even if you believe it does” doesn’t it? No matter what I write it only represents how I temporarily felt at that particular moment. First person, third person—none of it matters. But yes, I am a fan of Sam Beckett
#21 by teeni at April 21st, 2009
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Thanks for the informative link and your own thoughts on it. How are you, Bobby? Hope all is well with you. Sorry I’ve been scarce lately. But so have you! LOL!
#22 by Revellian at April 21st, 2009
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Hi Teeni! I’ve been extremely busy, and blogging it seems has taken a back seat—probably permanently. Being scarce here means you’re being prolific elsewhere doesn’t it? It’s nice to hear from you
#23 by John Folk-Williams at April 23rd, 2009
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Bobby – I love what you say in these comments about not believing what you’ve written & regarding it as a thought exercise. That’s the way to write! It’s actually more interesting to see how you get to your conclusions, though the advice is also good. I have lots of fiction attempts behind me – I can’t tell you how long it took me to grasp the idea of telling a simple story without all the “omniscience” cluttering things up. This comparison of 1st and 3rd is quite helpful – though the breakthroughs I’ve made, just in freeing myself up to write, have all been 1st person, when I can relax and feel I’m telling the story to someone.
And just so you know, I Stumbled this one.
Good luck with your novel. I can’t wait to read it and would like to reserve an advance copy ASAP.
All my best to you — John
#24 by Revellian at April 23rd, 2009
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Hi John and a huge thanks for the comment and stumble! I noticed quite a large influx of traffic to this post . . . thank you.
I personally love writing in first person the most, but to increase my chances of finding a good agent, I will stick to third at least for now. My novel is mostly written in third person omniscient like “Crime and Punishment” where I show the thoughts of some characters, but not all. This first novel will not be mainstream by any means. While some hopeful writers dream of sitting on the couch next to Oprah discussing their new book, I already know my novel would make her sick and because of its rawness could never be popular in a “pop cultural” sense. My hope for this can only be to gain an audience able to stomach my visceral realism. When I’m done, I will give you a free copy of course.
All I know is that writing this blog over the past two years is probably the entire reason I decided to write a novel. Personally, I think you have a tremendous writing skill and I hope you also write a book
#25 by Kelly at June 4th, 2009
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Hello Bobby. I came across this post while editing my 5th grade student’s story. I’m not a writer by any great stretch of the imagination, but I have been teaching for over 20 years, and have taken numerous classes designed to “teach me how to teach writing”. Here’s my dilemma – this young man is writing about a dog in 1st person, and then he changes to 3rd to describe what’s happening when his master searches for him. I’ve always told my kids to use 3rd as a first choice due to the restrictions you mentioned. I thought that you really weren’t supposed to mix third and first, but somehow it seems to work the way he’s doing it. Here’s an excerpt to show you what I mean:
(dog perspective)
After a long time I started to get hungry, so I ate my squirrel and then I tried to find other food. Then I looked for a place to sleep because it was getting dark.
(3rd person – Master Matt’s perspective)
Back at the park, Matt continued his discussion with John. He stopped to look at his watch, “Whoa, I’d better get going! Hey buddy, Jake, let’s go.” He looked down to see where Jake went. “Jake!! Where are you?” He yelled as he looked around to find him.
So, do I tell him to change it all to 3rd person, or is it OK to keep it this way? I’d love to hear what you think, or even if you could let me know of a site that might help me teach this in the best way. Perspective is hard enough for adult writers – and it has to be taught carefully to kids. I never really get into the different versions of 3rd person much – it’s hard enough to get them just to stick to one perspective.
I’ve just never come across anything like this situation before and I find it intriguing.
#26 by Kelly at June 4th, 2009
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One last thing. The way he writes as the dog, really gives it a special touch – one I don’t think he would get if he used 3rd person limited, which is what I believe he’d have to switch to. I was wondering if he could keep it the way it is, but just use italics to cue the reader that he’s switched to the dog’s perspective.